Flint, Mich. police cracking down on crack!

I think I (and/or others) have posted about similar "baggy pants ordinances" before, but this article is one of the most insane I've seen, mostly because of the diagram from the police dept. (at the bottom of the article):

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080708/NEWS06/307080009

I don't understand how the police can justify the claim that baggy pants gives them probable cause to search the person for other possible criminal possessions , such as weapons or drugs (can you get a concealed carry permit in Mich.? It'd be funny if someone had a handgun wedged in their asscrack - "Did you shit yourself? Wha.....??!!!").

That seems like a real stretch to me.

Anyway....discuss!

Facial_King said:

I think I (and/or others) have posted about similar "baggy pants ordinances" before, but this article is one of the most insane I've seen, mostly because of the diagram from the police dept. (at the bottom of the article):

http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080708/NEWS06/307080009

I don't understand how the police can justify the claim that baggy pants gives them probable cause to search the person for other possible criminal possessions , such as weapons or drugs (can you get a concealed carry permit in Mich.? It'd be funny if someone had a handgun wedged in their asscrack - "Did you shit yourself? Wha.....??!!!").

That seems like a real stretch to me.

Anyway....discuss!

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I saw this article last week. In a way I agree, but in a way I do think its a bit insane. Just walk behind the idiots and yank their pants down to their knees. :1orglaugh

Actually, what a lot of people don't know is gang members flash their colors via their underware, so part of this new crack down could be part of that.

Methinks it's more of a fashion peeve of police than anything...

Seems like the police are using a technicality in the law to profile people. Good for them. I think profiling, as long as it's not racial is a good policing tool.

Ok, so where are all the conservatives on this issue?

this is clearly grossly constitutional on many levels.

If people didn't wear very baggy pants where would they conceal things? It's not clothing has ever been made with pockets to hold items or anything like that.

It reminds me of the time I heard people trying to ban excessively rolled up leg pants because theoretically you could hide a knife in it. :1orglaugh

This article says that the Flint cops are cracking down on "saggers" - hopefully any large-breasted women that come upon the article will read past the headline, to avoid any unnecessary fear or monetary outlays on new, heavy-duty bras.

BTW, the article also has a little "poll" where you can give a thumbs up or down on the new ordinance:

http://www.wnem.com/news/16725020/detail.html

Well thats totally insane; I am one of those guys saggin!! I have always done that its just more comfortable.. in the examples shown @ the bottom of the article (I would be in the warning catagory) my belt is very tight so nobody could pull my pants down if they tried (by the way if you did try and pull someone's pants down; regardless of what stage they would be considered in the illustrated examples shown in the article; you would be best served playing with a poisonous snake cuz you'll end up gettin shot and thats for real!!) pullin down a guys pants is the last thing I would suggest you do if you find yourself near somebody who's saggin!! most of the folks saggin are most likely to be considered DANGEROUS.. and thats an understatement!!

The origin of this trend; fad; or style (I was told by an OG; original gangster) started when folks would get arrested and thrown in jail their belts would be confiscated and naturally if the pants were too large they would sag; so when these mopes got out of jail they got used to it (THE SAGGIN) and it caught on and spread like a wild fire; everybody thought it looked cool.. atleast thats the way I was told how this phenomena started (BY AN OG; original gangster) these were the gangsters that were gangsters when our grandparents and parents were children; so I guess they know alot more than we do about being gangster; we are just continuing the things that were started generations ago.. good or bad its tradition!!

Furthermore unless your ass is showing in public any attempt to convict or fine thes folks that are cited; fined; or arrested it's simply gonna get tossed by the judge quicker than a hand grenade; their is no law; or statute that dictates where your trousers are in regards to your ass!! as long as your ass isn't exposed!!! if your ass is exposed then shame on you!! your retarded; and you deserve to be fined; arrested or whatever the judge deems fit to convict you of!!! theirs no if and's or butts (<<< LMAO) about it.. thats the law!!! :thefinger :hatsoff:

baggy pants are often associated to rappers or gang members hence why people of law enforcement of Flint made this kind of law for a better criminal and crime profiling.

I'm skeptical of the prison release origins of the style, but I guess it's possible. Also, it seems that there are times when even an "OG" would want or need to run, and having one's pants like that would seem to get in the way of fast leg movement, no?

Well, whatever, I've seen plenty of guys sporting this look - black, white and Hispanic - and I've known a few personally. They weren't gangsters or criminals and they didn't own or carry guns.

I'm not very fashion-oriented at all, but I think it looks pretty stupid. Nonetheless, I don't see why anyone should get arrested for it.

Facial_King said:

I'm skeptical of the prison release origins of the style, but I guess it's possible. Also, it seems that there are times when even an "OG" would want or need to run, and having one's pants like that would seem to get in the way of fast leg movement, no?

Well, whatever, I've seen plenty of guys sporting this look - black, white and Hispanic - and I've known a few personally. They weren't gangsters or criminals and they didn't own or carry guns.

I'm not very fashion-oriented at all, but I think it looks pretty stupid. Nonetheless, I don't see why anyone should get arrested for it.

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I don't know if the (JAIL AND LACK OF A BELT) is the true origin of the style but it made sense to me!! I don't think most mopes ever take or took into consideration about when they have to run.. I am not disagreeing with what you have said I am just offering my humble opinion; and your right; not all folks who are (bustin the sag) sort of speak are criminals or carry guns; but alot of them do; and it is not just one ethnicitiy guilty of the saggin its done by multiple ethnicities of all walks of life.. rappers and gang members are like everybody else.. they do what they like and whats comfortable and considered cool...

I know when I do it; to this day; and back in the day; my mom and especially my grandmother way more than grandfather) and other family; and or friends who didn't care for the style or look; asked me why I am always trying to act black?? I would simply say its a multi-ethnic trend all races do it!! so they would ask why do you do it?? and I reply cuz I like it; its more comfortable then wearing (NUT HUGGERS) or (BALL RESTRAINTS) as pants.. they would say you look ridiculous!! and I would say well good for me; I look ridiculous; atleast I am comfortable.. and thats the way I feel about to this very day.. :thefinger:bowdown::hatsoff:

slipnot331 said:

I don't know if the (JAIL AND LACK OF A BELT) is the true origin of the style but it made sense to me!! I don't think most mopes ever take or took into consideration about when they have to run.. I am not disagreeing with what you have said I am just offering my humble opinion; and your right; not all folks who are (bustin the sag) sort of speak are criminals or carry guns; but alot of them do; and it is not just one ethnicitiy guilty of the saggin its done by multiple ethnicities of all walks of life.. rappers and gang members are like everybody else.. they do what they like and whats comfortable and considered cool...

I know when I do it; to this day; and back in the day; my mom and especially my grandmother way more than grandfather) and other family; and or friends who didn't care for the style or look; asked me why I am always trying to act black?? I would simply say its a multi-ethnic trend all races do it!! so they would ask why do you do it?? and I reply cuz I like it; its more comfortable then wearing (NUT HUGGERS) or (BALL RESTRAINTS) as pants.. they would say you look ridiculous!! and I would say well good for me; I look ridiculous; atleast I am comfortable.. and thats the way I feel about to this very day.. :thefinger:bowdown::hatsoff:

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Oh hey, yeah, just because I don't think it looks good, that shouldn't have any bearing on whether it should be allowed or not. I've worn jeans with holes in the knees and I was comfortable with them.

I completely reject the idea that white people do it "to act black" - that's beyond stupid.

Facial_King said:

Oh hey, yeah, just because I don't think it looks good, that shouldn't have any bearing on whether it should be allowed or not. I completely reject the idea that white people do it "to act black" - that's beyond stupid.

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True that.. my mom she was influenced by my grandparents who are VERY OLD FASHIONED and only see the black being arrested on TV or more so the news showing black youth as the main culprit of the problem.. but like I pointed out to my mother.. ALL WALKS OF LIFE WEAR THEIR PANTS SAGGIN!! everytime I see another white guy saggin I'd say hey ma look their another light skin black guy wearing his pants like me; or when a mexican guy or chinese or whomever it may be? whether on television or in real life I always show my mother.. she now leaves race out of the issue; but she still doesn't like it or the look and asks me when I am gonna grow out of it? and I told her when they start making pants that have an abnormal crotch (COMPENSATION FOR NUTS) that doesn't restrict (THE NUTS) and they don't sag; then maybe I will buy a pair to make you happy.. but of course that will never happen; so I told her til the day I die.. I WILL NEVER WEAR NUT HUGGERS!!! :nono: :rofl2:

slipnot331 said:

most of the folks saggin are most likely to be considered DANGEROUS.. and thats an understatement!!

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From a "sagger" himself. That statement is why this policing is so smart and will likely become an effective form of profiling to legally get criminals off the streets. I feel if someone is showing their underwear or ass in public, that it is reasonable to cite them for it. It is disrespectful to the community.

senob44 said:

From a "sagger" himself. That statement is why this policing is so smart and will likely become an effective form of profiling to legally get criminals off the streets. I feel if someone is showing their underwear or ass in public, that it is reasonable to cite them for it. It is disrespectful to the community.

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I see where you are headed with this; all I am saying is criminals as well as law abiding folks are guilty of saggin.. but in the city or communities like flint that are prone to gang and criminal activity it's better to air on the side of caution to assume someone who is saggin is dangerous.. just to protect yourself from provoking a dangerous situation...

Another aspect of the equation is I along with most sagger's also wear large baggy oversized t-shirts and or button down shirts untucked so our ass isn't showing to begin with.. just like many of the suspects police are profiling and policing.. the only way they could really be cited or stopped by police is if the individual is shirtless and intentionally showin his ass.. litterally and figuratively speaking.. so it is not such an effective way on sifting the bad seeds from the fashion seeds.. :hatsoff:

slipnot331 said:

Another aspect of the equation is I along with most sagger's also wear large baggy oversized t-shirts and or button down shirts untucked so our ass isn't showing to begin with.. just like many of the suspects police are profiling and policing.. the only way they could really be cited or stopped by police is if the individual is shirtless and intentionally showin his ass.. litterally and figuratively speaking.. so it is not such an effective way on sifting the bad seeds from the fashion seeds.. :hatsoff:

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I agree with what you're saying here. I think if they are going to enforce a law that you can't expose your ass or underwear, then they MUST follow the letter of the law. If an untucked shirt covers the ass or underwear, the police have no right to harass or charge that person. I feel it is a profiling AND indecent exposure plan. But if there is no indecent exposure, the police MUST leave them alone.

This is said in no offense to you, slipnot, or any other law-abiding "sagger", but I feel the police thinks a "sagger" is more likely than a non-sagger to be a criminal. If they feel this way, and they can stay within the law with their profiling, then I think what they're doing is OK.

Furthermore, I think if a "sagger" is cited for indecent exposure, and is found to have no warrants, drugs, guns or anything else illegal, the courts should be urged to dismiss the indecent exposure charge.

the real criminals wear suits and ties and carry briefcases, why don't the cops start profiling them?

set a raid up on capital hill. baggy pants hide weapons... Saddamn Huessian has weapons. sound familiar?

to paraphrase an old expression: steal a hundred dollars and you're a criminal, steal a million and you're a tycoon, steal a billion and you're the government.

senob44 said:

I agree with what you're saying here. I think if they are going to enforce a law that you can't expose your ass or underwear, then they MUST follow the letter of the law. If an untucked shirt covers the ass or underwear, the police have no right to harass or charge that person. I feel it is a profiling AND indecent exposure plan. But if there is no indecent exposure, the police MUST leave them alone.

This is said in no offense to you, slipnot, or any other law-abiding "sagger", but I feel the police thinks a "sagger" is more likely than a non-sagger to be a criminal. If they feel this way, and they can stay within the law with their profiling, then I think what they're doing is OK.

Furthermore, I think if a "sagger" is cited for indecent exposure, and is found to have no warrants, drugs, guns or anything else illegal, the courts should be urged to dismiss the indecent exposure charge.

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exactly correct; now were on the same page.. so and in effect if your just a (WARNING SAGGER) like myself; as demonstrated in the OP's post of the article then my pants saggin just look like my pants are a little too big.. lol.. I call it in my case; wearing em pants comfortablely; no typo back their just a little indian dialect for fun; the crotch of the pants are no where near my nuts and my nuts don't feel like their being choked and or restricted; thus we have sag-gation in the said (warning stage) I don't get ridiculous with my sag-gation sort of speak; like alot of other saggers do.. :thumbsup:

calpoon said:

the real criminals wear suits and ties and carry briefcases, why don't the cops start profiling them?

set a raid up on capital hill. baggy pants hide weapons... Saddamn Huessian has weapons. sound familiar?

to paraphrase an old expression: steal a hundred dollars and you're a criminal, steal a million and you're a tycoon, steal a billion and you're the government.

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thank you look @ GEORGE W BUSH & DICK CHENEY; HALLIBURTON CORP. and LOCAL EXAMPLE WOULD BE THE MAYOR OF THE CITY OF DETROIT punk ass retard fuckin up detroit kwame kilpatrick.. and all the other suit and tie gangters making more money from their hustle then they do with the LEGAL job title that their paid to do.. :dunno: